We’re all wondering… what is this doing to our kids? Are they losing their social skills? Will they end up depressed? Overly anxious?

Are we overly anxious?

Dr. Bryce Appelbaum of Appelbaum Vision in Bethesda wanted the answers to these questions and more. So he interviewed Robin Brannan LCMFT. Watch the full interview here.

Or scroll down for the complete transcript.

Dr. Bryce:  Thank you for joining us here today!  I am privileged to be here with Robin Brannan, who is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist.  And founder and principal therapist at Better Together Family Therapy.

Robin is an invaluable resource especially during these crazy times.  Where we’re all navigating virtual learning.   And quarantine life together.   

But I think we can have such a better understanding of how we can interact with each other.  And our children.  It’s so much valuable information on how to make this time as successful and positive as possible for all of us.  So welcome and thank you so much. 

Robin Brannan:  Helping people get through the tough times is what we do!  So we're happy to help with this one in particular.  

Dr. Bryce:  Can you tell us a little bit about your background so that we know where you’re coming from?

Robin Brannan:  I have a master's degree in Family Therapy from the University of Maryland College Park.   And then a post-master's internship (practicing under supervision for 2 years).   Which is required in the state of Maryland in order to be independently licensed to practice Marriage and Family Therapy.  Or a variety of other Mental Health professions.  

Here in our practice we have a variety of masters level clinicians.  We have Clinical Social Workers.  And we are open to hiring Psychologists as well.  

Family Focused Mental Health Care… for anxiety, autism, and ADHD

What all of us do is what I like to call family focused mental health care.   And that means that no matter what you come to us for, we are paying attention to your relationships.  And your family relationships.   

So the ultimate goal... because what brought you to therapy is the fact that you weren't getting along with your child.  Or you were frustrated with how your child was reacting to you or reacting to another situation.

The ultimate goal is to make those relationships better.  And get them back to where you want them to be. Our focus is always on the relationship piece.  No matter what the presenting issue is.  

I think we have a lot of overlap with your clients as well.   Because we predominantly treat ADHD, anxiety, and what's called high functioning autism or level 1 autism.  And a lot of those clients have visual system issues as well.  

So we've certainly had several clients in our practice that have come to you for vision therapy.  And seen some change in their symptoms related to the vision therapy that they received. In addition to the work we do with them.

Dr. Bryce:  Personally having heard from families and kids’ accounts working with you.  And with your different areas of expertise. It's going to be really hard to focus just on virtual learning today.  Because I know you have touched so many lives.  And helped so many people.

I'm just really fortunate to have you with us. Because I think there's a different lens that you can help all of us see through.  In terms of how we can be doing better to help support.   And navigate these times.

I’m going to start by asking you a bunch of questions.  But before we do that help us out.  By letting everyone know how they can get in touch with you.  And where you guys are located.

Robin Brannan: Absolutely! And actually because our focus is on online learning this month, you can also find a lot of content on our blog.  Our practice blog at BetterFamilyTherapy.com/Blog.  

So you'll find a lot of information there. But if you want to get in touch with us.  And get a little bit more personalized help for your family situation in particular.  You can reach us at 240-242-5185 or you can use our appointment scheduler. 

Dr. Bryce:  I just want to say your blog is fantastic.  And your website has so much information on there.  I went to look up your address and got lost and a couple of hours later I was still there.

You’re putting a lot out there for the public.  And I would imagine that’s only going to continue. As the world changes to where we are now and where we will be in the future.

Robin Brannan:   Thank you!  We didn't mean to make you spend too much screen time. 

Dr. Bryce:  I was wearing my blue blocking glasses and my stress reducing lenses so it wasn’t as detrimental to my visual system.

So I came up with a bunch of questions as a parent of 3 youngsters.  I’ve asked a lot of good friends.  What are the most important questions we could ask you?  

And how could we do better as friends, as parents, in our relationships?  Really in all these different areas.  How can we support our kids during this difficult time?

Robin Brannan: I think as parents we all know that our relationship with our kids is primary. Right?  So first things first, make sure that they know that you notice what's going on with them. 

Check in with them.  Ask them “how was your P.E. class today?” or “what were you doing in math today?  Was there anything cool you learned? Was there a moment that you were really proud of yourself?” 

Just checking in and asking those questions. Sometimes you need to get a little more specific with kids than “how was your day?”  Because they won't track those details.

But if you ask them something very specific.  “How was your math class today?  What was your writing assignment today?  Are you working on anything that's really interesting or exciting?”

Asking those kinds of questions prompts your child.  To think about specific things that happened.  Rather than “how was your day?”  “Fine.”

And then when you do check in, listen more than you talk.   So you ask your child the question. But give them space to respond.  

Rather than asking a follow-up question right away.  Or jumping in with your advice.  On maybe what they should do with that math assignment.  How to exercise more in PE.

And we all have ideas for our kids. But if it's coming from within them they're more interested in it.  More invested in it.   So we really want them to talk about what matters to them.

The other thing I think I would say to do is to make sure you’re infusing joy.  It’s an exhausting time for kids.  They're forcing themselves to tune in to class.  

Without all of the supportive structure of bring in the classroom setting. (Which has all kinds of cues for them that help them focus.  Help them tune in.  And be present.)

They're having to motivate themselves.  And mobilize independently right now.   Giving them moments that they can look forward to in the day is really important.  

Get out and do something as a family.  Play a family game.  Anything that you can do.  Even just taking a walk around the block as a family.

Infuse those moments of joy.  Those moments of play.  So that your kids have highlights in their life on a day-to-day basis.

And those moments of joy. I think also really help them to look at their day-to-day life in a hopeful or positive way.  As opposed to looking at it in the context of the things that they’ve lost.  Or the things that they can’t do right now.  

Dr. Bryce:  It’s so easy to get caught up in the nuances making sure everything is set up and checking off all the boxes that we don’t add enough joy.  So that’s great advice.

Robin Brannan:  We need it too!

Dr. Bryce: Absolutely! So what would be some signs that our kids aren’t handling this “new normal” well?

Warning Signs for Anxiety or Depression

Robin Brannan: In a lot of ways these signs are the same as they would be in another more “normal” time. In a more typical year. But the one that’s really hard to track right now is if you’ve seen a change.

Normally we say if you see a dramatic change in your child's behavior.  Or dramatic change in your child's emotions.  Then that may be a red flag for something that might be something to get checked out.

Right now change is hard to track.  We are all going through massive change right now. Change is more expected than it usually is.

1.I would say it rises to the level of something that you should get checked out or consult with us about if your child is withdrawing to bed all the time.  You know, when they're not on Zoom they're right back under the covers.  They’re closed off in their room.  And they don't want to interact at all.

You know there's certain age at which that’s appropriate.  Our older teenagers do tend to kind of live in their beds.  They tend to want to be asleep during the daytime hours.  And want more privacy and all of that.

But if you see your child withdrawing to bed more than they typically would have been.  Then that's a sign that you should maybe talk to somebody.  About what’s going on with them emotionally.  

2. If you're seeing big emotional outbursts on a day-to-day basis.  So if your child is screaming or melting down on a day-to-day basis.  They're really struggling to handle the pressure or the emotions of what's going on right now.

I would say it's normal to have an occasional meltdown.  As adults we’ve probably had them in the course of this situation.  And it's normal to have that dramatic venting of emotions periodically. Especially for kids.

But if it's happening day after day after day.  Then I would be concerned.  I would check that out.

3. And then if you see their performance in school really plummeting.  If there's a dramatic difference in what they were able to achieve before.  And what they're able to achieve now.

It might not necessarily be a sign of anxiety.  Or sign of depression.  But it could be a sign that they need some more support.  

Some more strategies or skills to fill in the gaps. In order to be able to perform in this current school environment.  That’s something else that a mental health provider could help you with.

Dr. Bryce:  So for those of us who are using bribery or a reward system to give some sort of incentive.  Are these effective strategies?

Robin Brannan:  Bribery. I think that word comes up a lot when we're feeling parent guilt around it.  So first and foremost I encourage everybody to let go of the guilt. 

If you have something that's working, it's working.  Don't drop it.  Keep it going.

But if it was working and it stopped working.  Or if it never really did quite work for your child. Then that's a situation where you might want to replace it with something else..

What we see is that those sorts of incentives... I don't usually call them bribes but incentives. Are less effective when the parent isn't completely committed to them.

When you're presenting them in a way that shows your child that you're not completely sure about what you're doing.  Or not completely comfortable with it.  Or when they seem really unrelated to the situation at hand.

We have a blog post from this month that is about stopping the process of reminding your child about things.  And in that post what we talk about is finding the things.  That you're doing for your child or giving to your child already.

And using those to connect to things that you need your child to do.  So if your child is leaving dishes in their room.  They're going to come to you and they're going to ask for a snack.

Or they're going to ask you to fill up that glass of water.  Or they're going to ask for their favorite thing from the grocery store.  The answer to that can be “bring me your plate and I'll do that.  Sure, no problem.”

So you connect the thing that you need them to do. With something that you're already giving to them.   Or already doing for them.

I call those things “freebies.”  They’re things that of course we do for our kids.  If your toddler comes up and asks you to fill their water glass.

They can’t reach.  Of course you’re going to do that for them.  Naturally.

But the conversation can be “bring me your empty glass from last time.  And I'll fill it right up for you!” 

So those things are just built naturally into the day.  And it doesn't have to be a big system.  Where you say “you earned your water refill.”  But it’s the conversation that you have when your child needs something from you.

Maybe your child gets some choice over what goes in the refrigerator.  Or gets you to buy a special treat at the store.  Maybe you would have bought those treats anyways.

It’s something nice that you want to do for your child.  But you can always keep them sort of squirreled away in a basket.  Or off-limits until that certain task is done that you need to have done.

So that it really is connected.  And these are real-world lessons too.  What you're really teaching your child is a process of working toward something.

And that is an important process for kids to learn.  You just have to keep it related. So that you know you're not earning candy by working toward having a cleaner room.  You’re earning something else for your room.

Specialized support for kids with ADHD

For kids with ADHD it is actually really important to have an immediate incentive.  For activities that aren't naturally interesting for them.   When a child has ADHD it's like they're looking at the world through a paper towel roll.

And they can only see that little piece that is interesting for them.  And so what you do when you add an incentive to it.  Is you broaden that view to include the incentive as well.

It allows them to focus on the task that you need them to do.  It allows them to move that paper towel roll vision onto something else.  

It can be as simple as praise or excitement from you.  But those immediate incentives do have to be there.  For a child that has that sort of trouble focusing. 

Dr. Bryce:  And of course that question about bribes was purely hypothetical.

Robin Brannan:  Of course!

Dr. Bryce: One of your blog posts shared some really nice recommendations.  For providing structure to a school day.  There may have been one before that.  But definitely check out the blog!

What are some ways that we can help give structure to the day for our kids?  

Robin Brannan:  You’re right.  We did have some great tips in there.  We did a webinar called Parenting Help for Online School.  Where we had parents asking a few questions live as well.

Some of the strategies are things like visual scheduling.  Children process visually.  You know that.  You’re a vision therapist! 

Children process a lot visually.  Much more than they process verbally.  So when we’re talking talking talking at them, if we can show them a picture...

That is so much more efficient for their systems.  For their growing and developing brains.   

Dr. Bryce:  It’s so much better coming from you too about vision, so...

Robin Brannan: Having a visual schedule.  Where your child has cues for the things that they need to do throughout the day.  So that you know they can see a picture of somebody jumping rope when it is PE time.

Or they can see music notes when it's music time.  A book when it’s reading time.  Having those pictures laid out in a visual schedule.

Where they can see what's coming next. They can see that the thing they're looking forward to is actually going to happen eventually.  When they’re slogging through the difficult parts.

That can be really helpful. You can have behavioral expectations on the schedule too.   If you have something that your child really struggles to do.

Like if your child really struggles to remember their materials for math time.  To get out their calculator.  Their ruler.  You can put pictures of those things on the schedule at that time.

Just to cue your child to think.  “Oh yeah I need that stuff right now.“  And then they don't have to think about it the rest of the day.  Because that cue is there for the moment that they need it.

So the visual schedules can be really helpful.   If you have certain places where you know your child gets stuck.  Like if their Zoom meeting closes they don't know what to do.

Giving them a little step by step cue.  We call it a help card. Giving them steps to go through in that situation.  So that they can problem-solve on their own.

And then I would say making sure that free time is really honored as free time.   And so when you're creating that structure for your child.. maybe you’ve got an asynchronous learning situation rather than scheduled class periods during the day.  

You can schedule those classes.  But also structure break times and free time.  So that your child can feel that difference between working hard and hardly working.

 Dr. Bryce: That’s great to hear because I’m sure all of us have put in chores.  Into that free time.  Or cleaning up their rooms.  

It should be their time.  They choose their activity.  So that's great.

I know you probably see this with your clients.  And with your friends.  You know there’s such a continuum of how we’re handling everything that is going on.  And the stress level that is associated with all of that.

What are some ways to know that kids are picking up on their parents stress?  Or what are some things we can do as parents to be cognizant of that?

Robin Brannan: This one will be easy.  They are picking up on your stress.  Because kids co-regulate. (Author’s note:  We all do, actually.)

They’re learning to regulate their emotions through your emotions.  And your nervous system.  So because they co-regulate they do feel your stress.

The wonderful thing about that is that they also feel your calm.  They also feel your coping.  So if you have a moment of stress with your child.  Then you're able to also self soothe with your child.

And bring that calming influence.  So maybe you do deep breathing.  Maybe you do a moment of meditation. Maybe you like to get outside and get physical.  If you run around the block in a moment that you need an emotional reset.  

Whatever your coping strategy is, deal your child in on it. Do it with them.  So that they can feel you calming yourself as well.

And in terms of minimizing impact, I would say watch your language around the pandemic.  And risk of infection.  And your feelings about online school.

Try to really keep the focus on things that you can control.  Things that you can influence.  The positives that are coming out of this.

And I will talk about that. Because I think there are positives that are coming out of this. Keep the focus on those pieces as much as you can.

So if you're afraid that it's not safe to bring your child to the grocery store with you.  Rather than have the message be “it's not safe.”  The message is “one of the ways that I keep you safe is by making sure that I handle this part of our life for you.”

Dr. Bryce:  And language is so powerful and if we’re able to organize it appropriately it’s a completely different message, right?

Robin Brannan:  Absolutely.   It’s “this is something we can do.”  Versus “if we don't do this bad things will come.”  And kids really feel that difference.

Dr. Bryce:  And if all of us take at least some positive from this.  Our world will be in a better place in the future than where it was in the past.  

What are some implications on development from all of this virtual learning from your standpoint?  

Robin Brannan:  You know I think we live in a time and we live in a place where we have so many choices for our kids.  We can choose between 20 different preschools that are in driving distance of our house.

We can choose just the right soccer program.  Just the right music program.  We have all of these options.

And sometimes that really creates a guilt trap for parents.  It creates a situation where we feel like if we don't do it just right it won’t be ok.  

But realistically those things are very very minor.   The timing of when your child learns a particular skill is naturally asynchronous anyway.   Different kids are picking up those skills in different time frames.

We all develop a little bit differently.  And so ultimately your child may learn a particular skill.  A particular social skill.  A particular academic concept.  A little bit later than they would have learned it otherwise.

But it doesn't mean that they won't learn it.  It just means that the timing is a little bit different. And that's okay.

It's okay for it not to be exactly what it might have been otherwise.  I think it's questionable whether exactly how it might have been otherwise was the right way.  Or the perfect way to do it!

So I think if we look at it in terms of when our child will learn something.  Rather than whether our child will learn something.  That feels a lot better.

Another way of looking at it that might be helpful…   If you have an opportunity to take your child out into the African Savanna on a safari.  And interact with nothing but giraffes for a year.  That feels like an opportunity.

That doesn't feel like a loss of social interaction.  Or a loss of the typical school.  A loss of dance class.   A loss of the school play.  All the things we do to really promote our child’s development.

We wouldn't hesitate to take an opportunity like that.  And we know that our kids would gain something from it.  There really is something to be gained here too.

Your child is getting a little bit more time with you.  Your child's pace of life is a little bit less hectic than it otherwise would be.  I think that slowdown is really very healthy for kids.

We move at a very fast pace in modern society.  That we were not necessarily designed to move at.  And it can be very stressful.

We've been seeing massive increases in anxiety over the last couple of decades.  As the pace of life has sped up.  And the pace of learning has sped up in the school environment.   

So slowing things down.  Pumping the brakes a little bit.  Might not be so bad.

It might give us an opportunity to take a deep breath.  It might give us a chance to cope with things that don't go our way.  (Which is a skill that we often find our kids are not developing as early as we would like them to develop it.)

And we would like our kids to have what's called “grit.”  I think a lot of people are familiar with that concept now.  Because it led to this idea of growth mindset.  Which is taught in the public schools in our area.

That concept of grit actually came out of a 2013 TED talk by somebody named Angela Duckworth.   She was a professor at the University of Pennsylvania.  She had left her professorship and left her teaching job in New York City public schools.  In order to study the factors that help students succeed. 

What she learned from the study she eventually did in Chicago Public Schools...  Was that the students that just kept going.  And kept at it when something didn't go well.  Or something didn't go their way.

They were the ones that had the most success in college.  Had the highest graduation rates.  That skill of grit is something that we only develop in the face of adversity.

Dr. Bryce: I’ve read that and I think I’m going to pull it back off the shelf.  Because I think you’re right.  I think if we can apply that to what we’re going through now.  We can focus a lot more on the positives.

A controversial topic and a topic that I'm sure you're having questions about all time is “pods.”   Does my child need to be in one?  If he is or isn’t in one what does that mean?  Are they going to suffer socially or emotionally?  Are they going to be harmed if they’re isolated?  

Can you talk to us a little bit about pods and what your thoughts are?

Robin Brannan:  I’m going to point back to that idea of it's not whether your child will develop but when. And so it's not so much that your child will never achieve something.   Or never have the social development if they're not in a pod.  Or if they're not connecting to peers.

With that said, I think especially elementary middle and high school-age kids... the preschoolers not as much.  They benefit a little bit more from being right at the right hand of mom or dad all the time.

The elementary, middle, and high schoolers do really thrive in their social relationships with peers.  And as much as we don't want to increase the screen time.  We do have some ways of continuing those interactions.

They can video chat with each other.  They can Zoom with each other for social reasons as well. If you can do socially distanced activities and playdates outdoors.  I would really recommend doing that.

Go for a hike with another family.  And stay 6ft. apart throughout the hike.   You have those interaction opportunities.  

Go to the park.  And have a picnic where you're all on your separate picnic blankets.  And have those sorts of interactions.  Without being in a pod.  

So being in a pod more closely replicates the typical scenario that kids would be experiencing right now.   A little bit more freedom to self initiate play.  If they're in a learning pod a little bit more of the structure of school.

So if your child is really struggling in the current environment.   And was really thriving in a different environment.  Then the trade-offs might be worth it to be in a pod.   To see your child really thriving.

If you don't think it would be as useful for your child to develop some grit.  Develop some new skills through this situation.

Dr. Bryce:  One of the big challenges we always come across, with one of our kids in particular.  Is difficulty with transitions.   And specifically summer to school year.  

Do you think that this is all going to make it harder for kids to return back to school? if and when that does happen?  Since they're so used to being at home?  

Robin Brannan:  Maybe.  I think that's a possibility.  Especially for kids who have some separation anxiety.  Or are a little bit socially anxious.

So for those kids I would say make sure that you are exposing them to environments outside the house.  Even if they're just with family.  Even if you're not interacting with other people.

Make sure that you are still going places and doing things.  So that it's not just we’re in the house a hundred percent.  And then we're not.

Doing that kind of gradual exposure.  Or repeated adventures and activities outside of the house.  Will help make that transition a little bit smoother.

But I do think we'll be having another conversation.  About managing separation anxiety and social anxiety.  When it is time for kids to go back to school.

The other way that we can mitigate some of that anxiety is again watching our language.   And sticking with the messages about the things that we can control.  Versus our fear-based messaging about things that we can’t. 

Dr. Bryce:  And I’ll welcome it at that time.  Because I think this forced family time is so incredible. And I think we take it for granted.   

We're all very fortunate to spend so much time with our family.  And those transitions that happen down the road.  We’ll face them when they come.

From a developmental and from an academic standpoint.   And an even from a social emotional standpoint.  Will students catch up on what's being missed academically?  I know we're all in the same boat together, but what are your thoughts?

Robin Brannan:  It’s an interesting question about content versus process.  Our kids are learning two things in school.  They're learning to learn.  And they're learning information.

So the information piece.  In this day and age... as long as we know how to find it.  We can get it.

We don't necessarily need to memorize all the information.  In the same way that we would have.  If we needed to physically have an encyclopedia with us to get the information.

So it’s the learning to learn process that really matters.  I think that those skills again can be developed when they're developed.  Versus having to be developed at a particular moment in time.

Sometimes we get really stuck on the idea that this is what happens in third grade.   Or this is what happens in seventh grade.  When realistically students do arrive at mastery of those skills at all different times.

So I think it may just be another opportunity to shift our thinking.  To when will this happen vs. will this happen or not happen?

Dr. Bryce:  My last question for you I think is my favorite.   How much of these concerns are parents projecting onto their kids?  And how many of these are actually valid? 

Robin Brannan: That's a good one.  I would say questions are always valid.  If you're asking yourself “is my concern valid” the question is always helpful.

But you do have to seek out an answer.  If you get stuck on the question.  If you get stuck on “I don't know if it's valid.”  Then you're sort of sitting in your own anxiety.

So go after the answer to that question.   Look for some information.  I keep pointing back to the blog.  On the blog we had to post a couple of months ago called “Tolerating Uncertainty While You Wait.”

And that post was about the options that you have when you don't have an immediate answer to the question.  What kind of information can you go seeking?   How can you resolve some of the stress that you have around not knowing? 

I think it's what you do with those questions that matters most.   And if you go looking for answers.  And find some things that maybe you could or should change.  Great.  Work on that.  

And if you find out that you're doing just fine.  That's great news too.  But don't just sit with the question.  Do something with that question.

And then I think we already talked about how parents’ stress and kids’ stress really intertwine.  So make sure that you're using your own coping mechanisms.  Things that help you stay calm.  Stay grounded.

Day to day do as much of those as you possibly can.  And do them in front of and with your kids as much as you possibly can.  So that those coping skills are passed on to the next generation.

And you’re able to co-regulate and soothe each other together.

Dr. Bryce:  This is all been so so helpful.   Thank you so much for your time.  And your knowledge and expertise with all that.  

I hope a lot of our patients are going to be taking this situation to you.  And your staff.  Because I think we're all doing a good job.  We’re all doing our best.  But the more tools we have the more comforting our future can be.  And the less guilt as parents we’ll all feel.

Be sure to check out Better Together Family Therapy.  Can you tell us one more time how to find you?   

Robin Brannan:  Sure!  Our office is in Kensington but we’re 100% online right now for safety reasons.  Our phone number is 240-242-5185 and we can be found online at https://betterfamilytherapy.com.